PATRICK OGLE: Now, what about bass -- what about your rig? I know that like -- Has your rig changed over the years? And what about [SOUNDS LIKE] how does that fly?

RON HOLZNER: Ampeg has always been -- I think -- I don't know if I was just born not hearing good but I was having my bass really, really [EXPLETIVE] loud, and like if I practice at home, I just turn it up and I have to beat, um. Before I had the BC Rich, I had this Rickenbacker and I got a whammy bar on it and I wanted to be Hendrix on a bass, you know, so I -- and you crank the [EXPLETIVE] out of it, and I just needed volume. Then, when I started playing in bands, hearing the guitar too loud really was annoying, and I'm wanting to hear the bass because I don't want to play just straight rhythm, you know, ump-tee-do-tee-do bass, you know. I wanted to be more, not really manic, but more lead-orientated and add more to it, and I needed to hear what was going on.

PATRICK OGLE: So more than just like boom-boom-boom?

RON HOLZNER: Right, and in that you can play in any kind of amp but I needed something to cut through because the guitar players are just cranking. I mean the Marshalls are just so [EXPLETIVE] loud [OVERLAPPING].

PATRICK OGLE: I imagine that they have like these giant full stacks.

RON HOLZNER: Oh yeah. Correct. And you know what, in rehearsal you got to cut through it, so I guess that's why I started playing more of my mids and that's pretty much what Geezer did with Sabbath anyway, which I started emulating.

This amp back here is an SVT 200T.

PATRICK OGLE: And this is the one you use?

RON HOLZNER: Hell yeah. I use this for Trouble, and I think I probably recorded two Trouble records, I think, on this one.

PATRICK OGLE: So this is something you use studio and live?

RON HOLZNER: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's why you have the flight case so, you know, the roadies they drop it down the stairs and [EXPLETIVE] and it kinds of protects it somewhat, so, you know, too many beers, chase the women, and starts -- well. Hah.

PATRICK OGLE: Now, you started telling me about how at one time before about how you played, how you worked for other people as a tech, and how does that help you when you're playing?

RON HOLZNER: Mmmh.

PATRICK OGLE: Or does it go the other way around? Because you play, you're able to do that better?

RON HOLZNER: No. Well, I knew more about equipment when I was tech, before I got into the band, and when you get in a band you get a little more lazier and, like with Trouble, we had technicians and all of this to take care of us so as instruments evolved, as a musician I didn't evolve with the technical aspects of instruments. You know, I had it, the grasp of it. I was doing really good. It seemed like stereo equipment like VCRs and [EXPLETIVE], you know, unless you're on it constantly as it changes. You know, if you like skip a year or two, you're not going to be able to look and jump in and do it like, "Oh, I can't hook up my buddy's stereo system," where I -- you know, people used to always head to me to hook up your VCRs and the whole thing, and now I have no idea because I skipped it. But there, hit in with Trouble, and we got the technicians and all the equipment changed, we just threw that into their lap like, "Make it work." You know, like the guy from [EXPLETIVE] Project Runway, you go in there and like, "Hey, make it work for me, and I'm not gonna deal with it. You deal with it," and I really like to kick myself in the ass for doing that.